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Posted By:stylist13 on: 5/20/2009 5:25:48 AM

Author: Thread: Issue with Wella/client- advice??
Posts: 17

Issue with Wella/client- advice??
Posted: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 5:25:48 AM
I have a client who I am having a hard time to get the Wella KP and/or CT to stick to her hair...

It's porous and bleached from previous pieces we used to do blue, and she's had a black base, although most of that has grown out...

I have done full blown color correction twice and she keeps complaining that it's fading. Now some of the fading is within reason, but some of it, I don't know, maybe I need a new formula.

Last time I believe (sorry no client card in front of me) a 44/65 mixed with some 55/46 KP (20 Vol) on her root, and then the mixed equivalent of that formula on her ends with CT with some RRV kicker.

I then gave her a gloss with Special effects Burgundy Wine just to amp up the burgundy/violet quality, and to grab onto some of the porous hair better since it's a vegetable based dye.

It's a friend/client who is really upset about it (of course she tells me a month after the fact, and she wasn't happy from the get-go, communication is key.... can't fix it if I don't know you're not happy... ugh.. )


Posts: 1196
Platinum Member

i don't use wella but..
Posted: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 9:50:18 AM

you probably need to use a color filler on the previously bleached areas to replace some pigment, then with the overlay (gloss), put it on dry hair with the lowest possible developer. i don't know your product line, but a gloss should be 5 volume or less. doing the gloss over dry hair keeps the gloss from rolling right back off due to too much water on the hair, especially if it is porous. the line i use calls for damp hair, and i will towel dry for normal hair, dry under the hood to just slightly damp for porous hair, or completely dry for spongy porous hair, or whenever i need more deposit over highlights.

the filler is going to be key i think in helping with retention.all you're doing now is blowing the cuticle and staining the damaged hair.

also, shampoo does matter, as well as sunlight exposure especially with red formulations.she needs to use the proper products for after care to prevent fadeout.

hope it helps!

Posts: 17

Posted: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 11:01:50 AM
Thanks for the info- I probably should have included in there that I did use a filler... On that note though, I have had issues with the filler I used, and have very recently started using Swartzkopf for filling...

And other than that I did everything else that you had said... used a gloss for deposit only on the bleached out parts put her under heat, etc.

I think it does come down to filler though- so I am going to give it one more shot with the new filler, and also call my Wella rep and see if they have any suggestions in regards to this, they did just re-forumlate some of their products, but not the deposit only line come to think of it...

Thanks a lot though, I really appreciate the help!!

Posts: 31

Posted: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 3:44:30 AM

I know this post is a little old, but I wanted to reply anyways for people who may be having the same issues.

Wella kp and depending on the natual level (especially using the intense reds) I never use 20 vol unless you need to lift 2-3 levels. With kp devloper 10 vol will lift 1 shade. I find even if I need the lift with the intense reds, results are better if I  mix a little 10 with the 20 to knock it down a notch to avoid hot roots. Processing time with grey = 40 min, otherwise =30 min.

After you have prosessed the full amount of time then you need to add your CT formula on the ends. 4.0 dev is only used to blend up to 70% of grey. All other CT is to be used with 1.9 dev. Also, with either line you can mix in up to 1/4 oz additives. I do this with no extra developer for the additive. When depositing on the ends process up to 15 min (in addition to the KP processing time) depending on how much the color has faded.

Most important thing of the whole process to ensure that the color gets locked in by using Performance Plus to seal that cuticle!!

Just for future reference the pastel developer is used to tone with only and cuts out most of the amonia left from blondor. Also making your toner more effective and last longer. And with the reds if you fear that the hair (in this case is too light) or someone wanting red with grey hair...depending on how much you think the hair may grab that undertone of violet, etc, you can mix in up to 50% of your formula with the same level /0. It will be the same as the red you chose. For example, on my mom I used to put 5/46 all over and it used to turn more like a level 8 orange-red. She is a natural level 7 with some grey and I mix 1oz 5/46 & 1oz 5/0 on her roots with just 5/46 on the ends to refresh them.

Please note.... I am sure you know how to use the KP and CT line. I am just giving advise on a lot of things nobody bothered to tell me about the product. >.< They had us mixing CT developer with KP! I always wondered why my color faded so bad on the ends.




&spades;Rock N Roll Ruby&spades;

Posts: 17

Posted: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 1:42:02 PM
All that info was REALLY helpful- maybe you can answer a question for me...
I have someone coming in tomorrow where I am stripping out her box dark almost black cherry red, and she wants like a 77/44. I did a strand test, came up light orange. I am assuming I will need to fill or otherwise it will look like manic-panic red. I am thinking 7/3 as that's what a recent educator told me to use. Let me know what you think.

Also, you were saying that you don't use beyond 20 with the intense reds.. I recently switched one of my clients from 30 to 20 on her root, I do 77/44 and 77/43 on her, and it just didn't have the same punch. She's a level 4 but is getting more and more gray, so I want to go to 20.

Also, when you said additive, you were talking about the specials mixes right? So I should not include that in with my weight in the formulation i.e. mix color and dev. eq. parts, and then add the 1/4 of special mix?

Seriously, thanks- I got thrown to the wolves with this color line. We had no real education with it, and although I love it, there was and still is some stuff that confuses me.

Posts: 31

Posted: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 2:43:27 AM


  • Yes, I do make some exceptions to my higher than 20 vol rule. Mainly of I am working with a big level difference and will need 3+ lvls of lift.

  • I know it sounds crazy, but adding up to 50% of the same level /0 to the reds really works! It also don't cut out the red like you would think.

  • As for the filler, since you are doing the intense reds..I would probably use 8/43 in CT with 1.9 for about 10-15 min. beacuse it needs the /3 as the underlying pigment and the /4 would help with holding the red since her hair will be so porus. I always use 1 level lighter for my filler so the color don't go too dark and I get more true tone final result. Rinse well, apply Performance plus, rinse well again, then proceed. This is just incase you do not have the underlying pigment chart to refer to. The color chart should have an underlying pigment chart to go by for filling. It actually uses the special mixes and Clear. I would be afraid to tell you since I don't have it memorized and no chart infront of me atm.

  • When I said additives, I did mean special mixes. And yes just add up to ( I meant 1/2 oz..1/4 of the tube, sorry) after you have mixed so there is no confusion about developer ratio.

  • UGGH! I am so scatter brained tonight...to that filler (provided you can't use the special mix filler formula) I would add in some /33 in just for the super porus area ie. ends. From personal experience, if the hair is super porus it will grab a violet cast!!!!

Let me know the outcome!

Rock N Roll Ruby