Dandelion, you are absolutely incorrect. Every hairstylist should have some 100 volume developer in their dispensary. It's very useful to give a little more punch to any formula. Your suggestion that even when diluted it's not acceptable is ridiculous, that's exactly what it's for. It has nothing to do with 'quicker' or frying hair, it's just a good tool. Perhaps you are afraid of it and feel better if you simply dismiss it as 'bad'?
Your attitude is pompous and silly.
Try to bleach BLACK HAIR. Sometimes you need higher volume for ADDED lift, NOT faster lift.
Besides, what makes anyone think that posting anonymously makes them sound credible?
this conversation's been going on for almost four years. I'm sure that the client that was the basis for this discussion has since had her hair done, and I hope it all went well.
I personally have never heard of 100v or 130v developer, and the thought scares me a bit. The story of the stylists whose bones hurt...scarey, and I would be inclined to believe it, only cuz it's a strong chemical we work with. Whereas it does sound intriguing, and fun, and maybe even a little cost efficiant, I'd have to agree with the skeptics too. To me it sounds dangerous in the hands of someone "new" to using it. I personally would be terrified to use it on an actual person.
Man, I would for sure do some testing on a mannequin head before I ever used anything like a 100vol or 130 vol.
I am sure that maybe for black hair, it might provide some extra lift needed, but I still would want to test before I used it on an actual client.
Who has had experience with it?
I would like to hear some other stories of how it has been used and how it turned out.
Just my 2 cents worth.
I have found with most of my clients. Rushing makes them unhappy. My clients look for quality time with there service. It is there time to get pampered. I have used some other wella products that I have had no problem lifting to white blond and never needed anything over 40 and lifted in 30 min or less. My clients gladdly pay for a comfortable not rushed service. Thats one of the reasons I opened my own shop, to stop being rushed. People gladly pay extra money for guality time.
Often for many it is not a time issue on using higher volume developers- For me it's that extra needed kick to lift out of orange stages on some customers.
I do recommend that when using higher volumes to process at room temperature instead of under the dryer because it can come up faster than you can take care of it. You need to be able to control what you use or else you should not use it. On the other end of the spectrum, I also use ten volume with bleach a lot- especially when I am doing color and bleach foils at the same time.
It should depend on the problem you are trying to solve that creates your decision on developer volume instead of trying to get people out much quicker than they should be getting out. Chemical services should take as long as they need to be taken for the best results for each individual customer's satisfaction. If either the client or the stylist is in a hurry- it'll never get done right.
I've used blondor quite a bit and it doesn't lift out gold that well in my experiences with it. You definitely need to use heat and higher volumes with it. I also find that it is a dry bleach and you really have to watch it to keep it moist and activating or it gets everywhere.
The bleach I used to love until they changed the formula was Color Graphics..... what a great product that was. But that one was heat activated- so you have to process under the dryer and it was perfect for people learning to foil. It used to come up quick like in 8 minutes on most people but now the new formula takes over double the time and is not as effective. I have found that it works better with 30 vol. & up than it does with it's highest brand formulated promoter: 22vol. That was pretty much my exclusive bleach, but then I had to re-do a couple of people and I started looking around.
I work with a person who really loves blondor, she thinks it is the greatest stuff. But I find it just o.k. It's never my first choice.
I find Paul Mitchell's powder bleach to smell nice but it swells a lot if you get it too wet and if you process with heat. The new Paul Mitchell blonding cream in the tube is really hard to squeeze out but is extremely gentle and will make nice caramel colors. I tested that one on my manikin using one foil of it with 20v. and another foil of it with 30v. To see the lifting power. It is a room temperature bleach- it says don't process under heat. I set the manikin up to process for 20 minutes but ended up not getting back to the manikin for five hours!!! I got so busy and sidetracked- I should have picked to do this control test at home or something. I was a little curious as to how bad the hair in those packets were going to be if any was left! In any case- both packets came up to a caramel color- one just a bit brighter than the other. No breakage- not pure white or tangly ratty hair. It is actually pretty. But that's how I know it is quite gentle- which would be great for newbies in training. (To the newbies: please just remember: For the love of God DO NOT leave it on a client's head for five hours!!!! manikin hair is a little tougher than head hair even though the manikin hair is human hair. feels like horsetail to me though......)
I like wellite powder, it's stays wet throughout the processing- even in open air processing.
I like Kaleidocolors, but it's really hard to tell if it has come up to the desired level you want. You really can't just wipe it a bit to check, you need to remove it from the strand you are checking. However once you get used to how it works- it's quite good. It has toners built into it so all you have to mix is the powder and the developer you chose.
To each his own as far as products go- This is why I hate product and technique snobbery. Every good hairdresser will use what works for them and solves the problem at hand.
I have to agree with you for most of your post. But I have rarely had issues with getting the level with the blondor. But I also am confident with my color and at time will tone if needed. But the extra info is nice to know.
May I ask where you work and what state? I notice you and hot locks are all over the threads. Lately I have been slow and have had time to read and answer when I get the notion
I am in Massachusetts. Hotlocks is in California.
I am a BR for a few more days until I go into labor! (MAN! am I ready!)I'm ceasing my business to be a stay at home mom for an undeterminate amount of time. Life will tell me when to get back into tis business, I'm going to ride that wave!
In any case, we all have our faves and experiences with different products. Whatever they may be for each of us I still cannot stress enough that everyone should try as many as they can get their hands on. Lessons learned from different products help create great hairdressers. Confidence IS the battle.
I like to post my experiences because I think it will create for one person the desire to try what I've written about and to attain more knowledge for themselves.
Alesia let me know when you stop working. I will put a nice little on extended maternity leave on your page- but I will leave it up and take your number off in place of the note.
mcoupland.. it's me! localstylist.
hehe (just in case you didn't know)
ok.. off to the post office to get passports- going to China in Aug for my daughter's goodwill games softball tourney!
Wow! China? I'd love to go!
Congrats Alesia !! bin there done that got the son and t-shirt mine is 9 going on 16.... he is my little helper here in the afternoons. My clients have no issues with him here Most of my evening clients are family people.
Hot locks I got that earlier How do you think I found your site.... hehehe You lucky dog.... I'm going to CA for a funeral. That about covers my travels and a beach trip in sept. to NC
OK I don't know if this is a crank call but ... I just got a call today if I will do services for a cross dressing man??? YEAH I do waxing and wigs bring the queens here PLEASE god I hope it's not a crank.
Thanks McCoupland, this baby is my daughter. I got my son four years ago. They grow up too fast, don't they?
I don't know, sounds like a crank.. most cross dressing men won't even give you the heads up.. they'll just come in dressed as a woman! lol
Where in CA are you going to be?
Did he ask for your confidentiallity in this? If it's a private crossdresser this certainly would be the biggest issue- otherwise they'd just come in dressed like a woman and leave everyone guessing.
Now if it's a queen on the other hand, they sashay in and everyone knows.....If you are really good with wigs then I would think that tapping THAT market would be extremely lucrative.
I have yet to find 100 volume H2O2 in any Beauty supply. However, I have found 50 volume at MALY's in California. To be honest with you I haven't been brave enough to use it. Long long ago, we would use peroxide and something called welloxide tablets that we would crush up and add to the mix. I have no idea what the volume was when we used 15 or so but it was powerful stuff. I mostly use 40 volume for foil highlights and baliage with my powder bleach.
WOW!!! what a discussion!!! this has been going for some time...
130 vol should NEVER be put on the scalp...... first and formost....
i am a colorist for a french salon... and we Balayage... there are times that i will put a "touch" of 130 in with my 40 vol to punch it up.... i have known colorists to balayge with staight 130 it does do the job... i just dont recommend going back over it for the touch-up with 130.... as for finding it ... someone has already posted that... we get it out of calif. i also agree with the other postings.... pratice on a manikan head..... there is a salon in our city that is getting sued as i speak... ended up on the front page of the paper... really sucks for the salon... but just a good reminder of what COULD happen if you dont know what you are doing..... good luck... and education is the key....
Why do you add just a touch of 130v. to 40vol.????What is a touch?
My calculations bring the halfway point between 40vol. & 130 vol. to be 85 vol. So a "touch" should bring it up to around 60-65 vol. Right? Did I figure this correctly?Am I actually doing the right math?
130 vol. is not available to my knowledge in the US, People say that they can get 100 vol. But I have never found it. Maybe my state doesn't allow it to be sold here? I'll have to check that out.
I personally want 100vol to cut down on all of the different bottles of developer taking up too much shelf space. This way I can't really run out of anything. Plus working from one bottle of developer and one gallon of distilled water definitely makes sense in quality control. You won't accidently use weakened developer that been sitting there for a year. You won't have to order so many different bottles of developer that haides eachother on the shelf only to find yourself hunting for something you didn't realize you were out of.
It totally exists. Many salons use it because it saves colorists a heap of money. How is it used? It comes in a gallon size and you can use only drops of it to dilute it down to 10-40. If you DO get your hands on it BE CAREFULL! Your best bet is to find an extremely experienced stylist who has been using it for years and watch that person like a HAWK to learn the dilution ratios like the back of your hand. It will save tons of money in the long run!
i worked with tocco magico, italy for a while and they made a 60% peroxide, and with their bleach it would definately take a level 4 or 5 to white. of course i wouldn't touch the scalp with it on my life, but it will do the job. it is not marked as 60%, or at least it wasn't when i last worked with it.
who wants white hair anyway, aren't we usually asked to get rid of the white?
good luck with that one!!!
I have read the previous info and feel the need to explain the real use of hi volumes of peroxide.
I have used 130 vol for almost 15 years and it does not go on the scalp.
It does not go in foil as it will break the hair.
It can be used as strong as 80 volume if you know for a fact it is 80 volume. Only using a hydrometer to measure the volume is the only way to know the volume exactly.
Most think that if i break down 130 in half I get 65 volume.
Every time you open the bottle you expose it to oxygen and the peroxide grows. By the time you get to 1/2 of the bottle your volume has changed. A hydrometer is the only way to go.
I have a method of application that involves a rake, a high lift creme, and powder bleach, and high volumes of peroxide.
First, The Rake, I am not binding the hair in foil and using heat. I weave pieces of hair to apply the color working from the bottom to top and laying the hair on previous sections as i work up to the fall line at the part.
Second, the high lift creme keeps the product moist as to allow the gentle lifting and eventually the product stops as it will dry out, ( not the hair, the Product.)
The Amount of powder bleach, volume of peroxide, amount of creme, all create the outcome.
End Result. Very conditioned hair, 20 min. application time, No having to watch the process under a dryer and having to pull foils, very cost effective.
I can't really understand how more of you don't do this.
I'm more than happy to help you understand how this works.
Dear The Doug-
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Thanks for that info Doug. And for being willing to explain it further. What product line are you using? I don't even know where to get 100 volume (except Siggers by mail) and have never heard of 130 volume.
Are you doing the Balayage technique with this? Is that what you mean by the rake? Thanks.
I get 130 vol from a local supply in Shreveport, LA. I know it is available from T-Ku Industries. You can google 130 volume peroxide and get their info.
I'm not sure what Balayage technique is exactly. The Rake is formally called a color palate. It is made by Piviot Point, and Framesi, and maybe someone else.
It's a flat tool, Plastic, about 5" by 4", with slightly rounded front that has teeth and fits the curvature of the head. The teeth distribute the color evenly down the hairshaft,
You apply the color with a semi-soft brush as you slide the rake away from the scalp and distribute the color toward the ends.
You can pull the rake out anywhere from near the root to ends as to only affect the hair with regrowth.
If you work from the bottom of section to top and weave out the desired pieces, lay the colored hair gently on the uncolored hair below, and you do not overuse product, the rake allows the color to only sorround the applied hair and not get any bleadage.
The teeth are fine, you can get to 1/16 of " to scalp,
If sectioned at fall line the color goes to scalp, lasts longer, not binded with foil, and if formulated right with the right hilift creme, the right powder bleach, Messing with some hi volume peroxide, the color will lift to a beautiful blonde, very little damage, easy application, client is out in less time, everyone happy.
Will be happy to awnser more.
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I have not done this technique of hair painting in years but have done it in the past. I am a foil junkie now. I will foil 350 foils in your hair strategically with a pattern that I drew out on a piece of paper for you before hand. I lay it inbetween, I fold it, I block it, splice it, weave it, create dimension with it, and highlight with it. I digress...
My impression on hair painting with this technique is the formula is made on the dry side, applied quickly and efficianly it will lighten the hair and then stop processing when it dries. The client is finished within 10 to 15 minutes, and platinum if a blue based lightener is used. I stopped doing this technique because of the flaky mess it made. It did exactly what I wanted it to do, it lightened dark hair beautifully.
When we did it we painted one highlite at a time with a brush over a rat tail comb.
I use Loreals Platinum now because it's blue based, creamy and stays moist, no dusting. I've inhaled more them my share of the stuff already. Sniffles.....
I would find bleeds. The creamy consistancy would have the hair next to the desired hairs absorb some of the product resulting in spotting, or brassy tones mixed in. I personally would rather take my time then rush through any procedure. I do not use heat, the heat from the head and the foil create all I need. I can see this technique work on chunky bold highlighting. Doesn't hurt me to place a foil as a barrier with this desired effect.
I do 350 foils for clients who start off with natural multidimensional hair, grey mixed with brown, 60 % in front, 20 % in back. By foiling the blondes in, the mediums in, and the darks in, their rootline is broken, they don't have a clear 1/2 line of demarcation in 4 weeks. Not everyone gets that many foils. Some clients get as little as 5 foils.
I am not knocking your technique. You and your clients are very comfy with it I am sure. It's just not my style.
40 volume peroxide is fine for me. If I desire more lift I add a booster. The heat traveling through the foil results is less bands on the hair. No dryer, just the persons natural temperature. There are times that I need the bleach to process at a slower temperature to match the timing needed on my color.
I personally do not want to do 7 or 8 of anything a day, I would rather variety.
If it takes 10 minutes longer to finish processing , that means my client has time to have a cup of coffee, or read an article. The average time it takes me to do this from start to finish is 2 hours. Depending on the thickness of the clients hair 15 minutes less or more.
I save time with my foiling by not folding each foil into a tiny little package that has to many bends in it creating heavier product in the pocket, and thinner on the bends. I fold over once, and quickly slide my highlighting comb to crease the edges. I find I have better manipulation with the foils, without slipping.
I have also just layed the foil as a barrier between my colors without folding it into a package at all. I apply my colors to the top of the head first, then the back, hairline last. 20 to 30 minutes after the last foil is applied my client is done. I see 4 people a day am comfortable with the timing, the result, the price, and a 2 hour lunch would drag me down.
I only responded in kind because I was quoted to make a point.
Do what you want, enjoy your skill, technique, and the fruits of your labors. I will do the same.
The use of a Rake ( with semi fine teeth ) distribute the color evenly around the hairshaft and " does not " bleed, providing you are not using too much product. You can apply multiple colors to hairs in the same 1/8 " section and they won't affect other hairs.
I feel the next big changes in haircolor has to do with application as there is only so much that can happen with red, yellow, and blue.
Years have shown us it's time for new application methods. First, cap hilites, then Foil, and now we must look at other ways to apply. This must include a look at time, condition, and ability to be versatile I ALWAYS advocate quality over quantity.
When you speak of boosters, this is exactly what I am doing with higher volumes of peroxide.
Time of processing is automatic, I do not need to alter my formula several times in the application process to match my timing.
It sounds as if you have mastered the foil process, and hopefully you will open yourself to other techniques to help you out with the issues you will encounter as others move away from caps and foil.
Hair Fashion, as with other industries, change constantly, and our application methods are no exception. I welcome these changes so long as quality is not sacrificed.
I must now bake a potato.
mmm potatoes, baked mine tonight with peanut oil, fresh garlic, bay seasoning, pepper, and vidalia onions at 350 for 1 1/2 hours, broiled for 10 minutes..... tasty!
When I say 350 foils, I am exaggerating. I am open to new techniques. I would enjoy seeing how you apply with the rake. I may find a client who this technique would suit perfectly.
How did you cook your potato?
Ummmm..... Vidalia onions.... You must be from the south. I live about 2 hours from Vidalia and love the onions and have my own Bay bush.
I am trying to do some classes on the rake technique in the area soon, Hopefully you are in the general area as I think we all could benefit from looking at different ideas.
This method has changed my haircolor world.
By the way.....My California white potato ( wrapped in foil ) was then sliced, drizzled with garlic Danish butter, cracked pepper, bacon crumbles, and served with a piece of marinated pork tenderloin, Grilled, of course, ( sorry, I burped ), and a nice Chianti.
Would love to tell you more of my system................Doug
Native New Yawka here.......... oops, accent slipped.
My red roasted potatoes were served with venison strips sauteed with strips of red peppers, green peppers, and snow peas in worstechere sauce, soy, topped with various spices, fresh milled peppercorn and milled sea salt. A cored sweet onion recipe with a cream cheese and bacon filling was an attempt to try a different side dish. Although interesting and tasty, I most likely won't have that side again. Fresh Sesame Bread finished it off. They forgot my Merlot at the store, so Baileys irish cream on the rocks it was!
I've seen the rake.... never watched an example. The redken fushion line I use would sit well back to back with that technique I think.
Let me know about your show... Hey it's a write off, I'll travel. Think I can rent a Mustang there?
Just when I think that I'm out they pull me back in again.....
Sweet Dreams people..... I must stop posting, It feels like a new OCD.
You'll see the Rake soon, Sorry, I didn't mean to mess with the OCD ' s.
Yea, you can rent anything you want, Mustang, Alligator Anything. You name it.......
sounds really awesome and inspiring/exiting when you talk about what will come after foiling. I want to soo bad know what this rake technique is. I live in nowheres land saskatchewan, canada and find it hard to find new techniques. I wnet to Vidal Sassoon academy santa Monica for like 3 months and already I am being slowly clinged down to old ways. AAH! hahaha. Oh well..I will learn more. How does this technique not blle at all I would lopve to watch what kind o consistency you are using. good on ya! I am using matrix color and love it but the darn kolorkiks and goes hot on the roots all the time.:) Oh well..ill figure it out
Yes, I do feel we must find other techniques for application. I find the Rake ( as i call it ) will be a big new tech. As far as consistency, The product will slightly drip of the brush, not run, not chunk, drip slightly. When mixing with a highlift creme, a powder bleach, and the vol of peroxide desired, the product will swell and thicken over about 5 min. Then add more peroxide in small doses to get to the desired thickness and the product will stabilize and stay at this consistency for about 30 min. Enough time to apply. I think you can order Rakes, ( Color Palates) from Pivot Point, Toni and Guy, or Framesi. Look for their websites.
You can email me directly at firstname.lastname@example.org and I'll be happy to talk you through it. You must find 130 vol peroxide and a hydrometer. If you have trouble finding I can ship you these items as I stock lots. Just let me know.....
Happy coloring and Happy to help. Doug
Welcome to the BTC Talk Back Boards! Please take a few moments to read over the board rules in the green box above. You can find 100 vol in the US - but it is not to play around with. Some people use it with a hydrometer to make various volumes and some use it for the balyage technique. If 100 vol touches the skin it could burn it bad.
When I lived in the city I bought mine at a supply store on Grand Street in Williamsburg Brooklyn. Only place I could find it.
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